Video - Robert Craven and Timothy Armoo discuss Black Lives Matter
VIDEO: 23:57mins
AUTHOR: Robert Craven and Timothy Armoo
In this episode of GYDA Talks, Robert sits down with Timothy Armoo. Timothy is the CEO of Fanbytes, a digital agency which helps the world's largest organisations like UK Government, Apple and Deliveroo win the hearts of younger audiences on Snapchat and Tiktok.
As we watch the events in the US unfold and the #BlackLivesMatter movement grow globally, we discuss how it's unfolding and reflect on the world that we live in… how far we have come and how far we have yet to go.
Robert and Timothy discuss:
How we can make a change towards a new, equal future
Timothy's experiences from education to founding a business
How the Digital Agency world can make a difference
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Transcription:
Robert Craven 00:19
I'd like to talk about what's going on in America. I mean, you've been fairly clear online, about how upset you quite rightly are, and what your team is doing to respond. Yeah. Maybe you just like to just talk us through that.
Timothy Armoo 00:39
Sure. So I think one of the things which I went, to understand, especially for me why so much of this matters to me, so I went to, I was lucky enough to get a scholarship to a school called Christ hospital. It's like a sixth form boarding school.
Robert Craven 01:04
Without the habits.
Timothy Armoo 01:07
That the one Yeah, so we were like these long dress socks. And we marched into lunch everyday. Yeah, basically, like, Harry Potter. And, and. And it's interesting, right? Because even from then, I think I was never quite aware of like, my race. I was just like, yeah, cool, wherever, just, you know, I'm a black guy, whatever going. And then, then, you know, when to worry, that was cool. No one ever really gave me any issues about it. And then when I started found by as a business, I was like, you know, again, I'm very much about like, do the best work and the best work get seen, I don't really care about that type of thing. And then I started to, you know, get asked to speak at events and conferences, and, and I started going to these conferences where, you know, 5000 people or 10,000 people, and I'm speaking at these events, and it's like, you know, I'm the only black person there. And I remember there was even once I was on a panel, or no, like, someone asked me to be on a panel about diversity. And it was, like, I looked at the people on the panel was like, Are you? Like, these guys are here to my diversity? And it's like, everyone is looks the same. So, at first I was like, Yeah, okay. Okay, cool. And then with this, and so, it was kind of then that I started to realise, okay, this is interesting, you know, like, in the technology space, and the advertising space, like, in both of those industries, there aren't particularly a lot of people who look like me. So I was just like, well, you know, maybe they just haven't had the roots and stuff. Cool. Then I think when these things like, you know, a couple of years ago when with Eric Garner, right, when he, you know when he just got his got killed by the police. And then I kept hearing these things. And then with this George, George Floyd thing, where I watched the eight minute video and I was just like, like, I've just seen a murder, like, like, like, I have just seen a murder someone has just been killed. And I think it was when I started to. It was kind of around when Aragon, Trayvon Martin I was like, it does seem ACYF that. Sure, with a police brutality, I have never experienced that I've never been arrested. I've actually I will say this to my girlfriend, like, personally, I don't think I've ever had like a direct racist thing, like ever. But then I started to just like, Go, right. If you look at it from a bigger scope, you start to realise that they're just very odd, like, systematic things, which it's not so much that people are, you know, directly racist, like, you know, coming to you and, you know, like, saying the N word or something to you. But like, it's just these little things where because people just are not aware of the way they act. They like they therefore act in ways which just puts down black people, right? A good example is, you know, through is fundraising, right? So I'm very fortunate that we've gone to raise like, you know, like, over 1.5 million in funding, we have my great investors, etc. But I see He a lot of my other black founder friends, and they say they're struggling. And I'm like, your idea is great. Like, I've actually invested in a few of their ideas, and I've shown it to like, other people I know. And then it's just been like, yeah, I don't understand the space or like, you know, I can, like, you don't fit the typical kind of like, you know, maybe like privately educated, you know, middle class type person who I can almost like, tick the box in my mind and say I empathise with you, right? And so when we kind of when I, when I peel that back up, and I was like, there is systematic, like, racism, but it's not, it's not like, I, it's people who are not actively being racist, but it's more like, because they're just not aware of it. They just go, Whoa, that's his life. So then that's when I then said, Okay, this thing, and then because I was just so, you know, I was so pissed off, when I was watching that video. When I was just like, this is a murder, like, God, like, this is a murder, like, we have this look at a man be murdered. This isn't some mistake or anything like that. And then you look at all the other videos, and you're and you're like, you know, a guy was jogging through a neighbourhood, oh, he must be a burglar. And then shortages, like, come on, right. And I saw that I was like, Cool. The least. So that is what I can personally do as an individual is donate to both the tour Floyd Fund and the Minnesota funds. So I donated like, to my last month's salary, but in all my speaking gigs, for the year so far, and the ones upcoming. So for the year so far in my salary, no, I think I gave about, you know, in the 10s, of 1000s. And I was like, Cool, fine. And then I said, as an agency, I want us to do something because I am the CEO of an advertising company. And I am one of the very few there. And I said, Well, I'm actually going to just read, like, bring this up with the rest of the team, because Sure, I'm the CEO. And I'm black. My co-founder is black, and also from Ghana. And my other co-founder is from Nigeria. So we are three black people who lead an advertising company. And so I put the chat, I put in a Slack channel, I said, guys, I know you guys care about this, because I can see on everyone's social media that talking about it. So I said, Okay, I know you guys care about it. And I think that we as an agency should do something about it, we will provide whatever the funding that is needed, but I want us to make a collective action behind it. You can fill up this form anonymously if you want, or you can do it with your name on it. But I want us to put some natural firepower behind this. And I did that yesterday. And their responses have just been incredible. Like literally reading them at 12 midnight, where like, you can see oh, so obviously these people have worked with us have worked with us for quite a long time. You can see, you know, even if some of them didn't put their name, you can see who said what, and you're like, wow, like, I didn't, you know, so I didn't realise this meant so much to you. And we are now putting a number of things in place. We'll be announcing them soon. But um, a number of things in place, like even in AI industry, especially the influence industry, several examples of like, historically, we see actually that black influences because we put them on a lot of campaigns, they actually perform about 1.9 times more from a click through rate than average because they are seen as just much more relatable and just like when they're talking to the auto dialer audiences much more of like, this is like an easier conversation and stuff like that. So they perform 1.9 times better than when our campaigns people put them on some campaign plans. With those stats, like literally showing this person before the better. The brand wouldn't choose them. You're like wait, what, why? And it's because like, again, it's not it's not obvious racism, but it's because like in you know, the marketing managers mind like they have an idea of who is the perfect person to represent them, and it's not them go And ah, it's not a black person, right. But like, in their minds is, you know, we're looking for this type of person who is, you know, like, like, I'm female? Why probably middle class and probably, you know, like, does this does your like, I get where you're coming from because in your mind, you didn't think of this person, but then it becomes a bit of an awkward conversation to have with, like, between the campaign manager and them if you're like, is the reason why you chose this, like, didn't choose this person, like because they're blind? Because that tells me the reason, but it's not because the person says no, like, no black people, it's because just like in their mind, they have this idea of what a successful influence means in their mind. So there's so many things that we're doing.
Robert Craven 10:51
Those interesting things about a common man who was yesterday saying that actually, in the UK, the racism was more subtle. In America it is absolutely blatant. It still gets out of my bar. Whereas in the UK, everyone, everyone kind of paid lip service to it. But then they don't act or they forget to act and so on and so forth.
Timothy Armoo 11:17
Yeah, yeah. I just want yeah, like, I think, I think that phrase that you put was a perfect phrase, they like, forget to act, right. So people don't go, fu people don't go, blah, blah, it's more, it's more just like, you don't fit the idea of what I have for this. And so I don't quite know, like, what I'm going to do, right? Like, I don't quite know, my face you. And I say this a lot. Like I say this so many times when I speak to my friends for like, fundraising and investors and all that stuff, where sometimes it's just because, and I and I know that for example, in Silicon Valley, and the reason why it's very hard for like people of colour to raise money, for example, is because like, you don't fit the Ivy League dropout. So therefore, it's like, oh, okay, like, tell me more about your idea. Like, Tom, you know, let's go into deep detail about this. We're just like, oh, I believe dropout. Well, talk about this kind of thing. So yeah, let me back. Right. It's a weird one. So we are actively doing some things to make some steps both in the influencer perspective, but also in just like the advertising world perspective, and I'm very excited about it.
Robert Craven 12:37
So everyone talks about diversity. Okay, everyone from the big consulting firms, the government everywhere says, diversity creates a better solution of diverse data. Yeah, I can name probably three agencies, two agencies that are Oracle proper multicultural? In other words, why white males are the minority? And is that just because people are paying lip service to it? I mean, in general, diversity. So that's not just about not just about race that's about sex sexuality. It's about Yeah, the whole way, a whole way through. So do you think the diversity debate is slightly different from what we've been talking about? Is it lip servicing? Because they do feed into each other?
Timothy Armoo 13:39
Yeah. So I was talking about this with one of my investors. So one of my investors, a guy called Nigel Morris, he was a CEO of Dentsu and we're talking about this because he also had that same thing as, he's been on so many panels and all of my classes, etc. I think the reason why, so I think that it often comes across as lip service, primarily because, well, but two things. The first one is because the actual, like, the actual change that is being driven or like the ideas behind the change, often stem from people wanting to feel less uncomfortable, rather than people wanting to, to actually implement something practical. So a good example is people having all of these panels and saying, you know, we'll bring people together so they can be inspired and meet other people, etc. But actually, what like the key thing, especially with diversity in advertising is just giving people Claire access and opportunity. So the client access and opportunity is going. Yeah, I know People are going to, you know, talk some shit about it, but I'm going to create these five to 10. You know, these five to 10 positions specifically for, you know, black females or black males or LGBT like, and I know people are gonna go like, Oh, yeah, but what about white people etc? Like, well, I actively want to increase the pipeline of this, because I don't think people are asking to say, lower the barriers for me so that I can get in, people are going just like, make a conscious effort to make a path for these people. And the people who choose to walk through that, like, we will choose the best people as and I think people go, we need more diverse faces. And it's just like, Okay, well, let's just talk about it. And hopefully, they will go through the same, the same path that like, you know, other people have gone through. But the problem is people can't go through the same path that other people are going through because they have their own nuances. And the second thing is because, and the second thing, which is so blindingly obvious, and I didn't realise it until I started getting involved in this is, a lot of times people don't actually change and are driven by the people who can drive the change. So like, you go, I want to have more diverse people. But then it is, that whole initiative is led by someone who in themselves is not a diverse person. Like, I want more black people. Alright, cool. So all these programmes are going to be run by like a white people. It's kind of like, but but like, like, for example, when I said, you know, I'm, I was speaking to a friend of mine, who runs a really successful podcast, and I said, and he hit me up, and he said, like, what can he do? And I said, right, you have a podcast, which is listened to by some of the top VCs, angels and founders, why don't we get like five startups run by black founders, and come on, then get them to like, pitch, basically. And, and, and, you know, if they pitch, we kind of do, like a Dragon's Den type thing. Then he was like, that's a sick idea. And I was like, it took me 30 seconds to come up with this, right? But it's because I understand the context of the people so I can go cool. But if, say, for example, someone like him, he's a great guy and stuff, that's fine. But like someone like him, was left to their own devices, like who, let's now have a need to know about how we can do this, let's not do this, let's not do an event. And I'm like, well, I'll just do this. And if you're on the five founders, I personally, I'm just going to send texts to them and go, you're on this journey, this journey this and just like that, we got five founders done dusted. So I think it does have to do with that whole idea of like, people actually, just almost like the change not being driven by the people who are the effect of the change and not very hard to do anything.
Robert Craven 18:17
Okay, so one of the things things are picking up, which I love about about your, what you're saying online is you're not just saying, This is wrong, this is wrong. You're trying to get some action, you're trying to get stuff happening, which isn't just complaining, but actually trying to demonstrate there's a different way of doing stuff. So can you just explain that without giving away too much if anything's being plotted, what kind of stuff you're hoping to achieve?
Timothy Armoo 18:52
So, I mean, I can just share one which, which, which we're about to announce, basically, one of the things is obviously that if you are say, black influence, or black creator, you're often overlooked and even and even if you have the greats, you know as I mentioned, the results the traffic etc. Because you don't like that idea people go cool. So a number of things we're doing firstly is well firstly, we're having a more active approach to go in creating and saying these are the black influences we've worked with these are the click through rates, this is how they worked with his brand etc. And we would actually like to put that front and centre to the brand because sometimes I think just people remember that. The other thing is we actually came up with a fund so we're putting in our own cash to actually support you businesses who are targeting this audience who are going to be using black influencers, like we ourselves will fund the campaigns. And we will just fund the entire campaigns, pay the influencers on time and do all that stuff. Because of two things, firstly, generally access to capital is one of the things that stifles a lot of black businesses. But then the other thing that black creators themselves sometimes get overlooked. So we can basically come in and go cool, black owned businesses will fund your marketing campaigns, black creators will pay you guys, then at the very least, if you do that, then I've also hit up all our investors, and I've said, Look, are you guys down for it? Right? You guys, you want to match our donation basically, to match our fund. And since then, it's just been pouring in, people are matching it over and over and over again. So you know, where taking 10,15, 20k And that's not becoming a 100k fund, because these people who were able to put in half a million can now just put in, you know, another 10k. And it's actually not like a donation. It's not like oh, yeah, this was nice. It actually goes into meaningful ROI. Give me a second, I'm just gonna open the door for money. Yeah, so just go into meaningful ROI.
Robert Craven 21:31
So this interview goes out to a community of 1200 agency leaders, which I suspect 1170 of them are white males. What's your message to those people?
Timothy Armoo 21:57
So I think that, if I was to give one single message to them, you know, there's, there's so many things you can say you can say, like, donated and all that stuff. But I would actually say just, like, get more informed about this, because I, you know, I went to the protests yesterday, and someone had a very, like, someone basically had a billboard, or had a board, which said that, like, silence is, like, silence is not an option, basically. And I realised that like, for most people, even if you don't know what to specifically do, at the very least, if you can actually just like to be informed about it. Like, that's where we are. So there's things like there's a site called like, join, change, zero, very good site to go on. And just just learn about the fact that like, there are these systematic things in there. So at the minimum, I would just say like the activity informed job joints, join chain zero black lives. matter.com It's like things which will actively get you informed, because as we said, at the beginning, the biggest thing is not that people are like, you know, like overtly racist, or, you know, they're out there going, you know, you this, you that it's more like, this is these systematically, this is the systematic things they're not actually aware of, and just being more informed. There's just a good stop.