Robert Craven interviews Amanda Barry - The Entrepreneur's Coach
VIDEO: 46:21 mins
AUTHOR: Robert Craven and Amanda Barry
In this GYDA Talks, Robert talks to Amanda Barry. Amanda is a business and personal development coach who works with entrepreneurs, focussing particularly on those running ethical, environmental or social impact businesses. She qualified with the Co-Active Training Institute, one of the world’s leading coaching training organisations and is certified with the International Coaches Federation. She spent the first part of her career as a PR and Comms Consultant, which included running her own award-winning agency, and in the last 15 years has been specialising in sustainability and environmental issues.
Robert and Amanda discuss:
Coaching aha moments
Burnout - from the inside
What is coaching and how and why is it different from consultancy and training?
B-corps - what are they and why should we know about them?
Are there any studies that demonstrate anything more than a correlation that some good guys are also profitable
Won’t larger businesses greenwash and pay lipservice…. Get the consultants in like they do?
Are there corporate examples of good practice - go to sustainablebrands.com
Your recommendations/pearls of wisdom, golden nuggets you‘d like to share…
Transcription:
Robert Craven 01:02
Hello, and welcome to the GYDA talks and today I'm absolutely delighted to have with me Amanda Berry. Hello, Amanda.
Amanda Barry 01:12
Good morning. Hello.
Robert Craven 01:13
It's absolutely great to have you on board. So for those people who don't know who you are, Amanda, tell us a little about who you are, what you're known for, maybe a little bit of the backstory.
Amanda Barry 01:22
Okay, I'd love to thank you. So I guess I'm known for really what I've spent most of my career doing, which is public relations and communications. I set off working for the computer games industry, then work for big London agency, then went on to set up on my own, I spent 10 years doing that. Then I went on and worked for the government for a while in waste and recycling. Which by the way, I actually really really loved that's when I really got the bug first off on the environmental thing. And, but I didn't really like working in the system very much. I've worked for myself for too long. And I found it. It was lovely to have the wage, I have to say every month, it doesn't matter if I sat my ass and didn't do a thing all day or I worked really, really hard. I've got a salary. But anyway, I decided that I couldn't actually, once you work for yourself, it's quite hard to go back in. So I lasted a couple of years. And then I went back to work for myself. And then I said, why I didn't like the system, I did love the subject matter. So then I went on and started to specialise in environmental comms and worked for whole range a whole bunch of different organisations, from climate action groups to marine conservation, recycling materials, you know, the whole sort of range of things. And that's really what I spent the next quite several years doing. And then I managed to realise a long held ambition, which was to train to be a coach, I first encountered coaching when I was running that first business. And in fact, that's where I met you, Robert, if you remember. And I'd come on a business growth course of yours. And you introduced me to a coach, and I just was wowed by the whole experience of it. And I've just been disturbed by the sun. So I hope that's not disturbing you. Yeah. And I remember thinking at the time, well, I really love what she's doing here and what she's doing with me. And it really helped me at that time. I did actually, I wish I had worked with her sooner because I did actually burn out. So I ran that business for 10 years. I loved it. But ultimately I just give it everything. And I just ran out of steam. And I really think if I'd worked with her earlier, I would not have burned out and the way that I did, I ended up walking away from the business. And anyway, so then I remember thinking, and I have worked with coaches since and I've always worked with coaches at key points in my career. And I've always thought, yeah, that's really good stuff. I like to do what you're doing. So I trained to be a coach, and I've been doing that last few years. And I decided to sort of bring together the two parts of my career if you like the passion of around the environment. The thing is, like the biggest issue of our times. Clearly we're living through extraordinary times right now. But climate change, etc. And I thought, well, I've got a lot of experience a lot of knowledge. I did a BSc in the environment just to increase my understanding and knowledge about What I was talking about and what I was doing. So I thought, Well, when I'm going to be a coach, I'd like to really focus on working with entrepreneurs, because I've spent most of my career running my businesses, and also on the environment. So people who are running businesses focusing on ethical, environmental or social impact work, I really love to work with.
Robert Craven 05:27
There's an awful lot that was done, Patrick, I'd love to talk about three things. You've mentioned that. So the first one is doing I mean, what was called PR, which has in a way become content management, which has become that's been morphed into 8000. But is it different doing that around environmental issues or sustainability issues? Good Works, rather than doing it for anyone else? Is it not just the same principles, but you're applying it to a different box?
Amanda Barry 06:03
Absolutely. I mean, public relations is the same, it doesn't matter what you're doing. But what I decided to do is, instead of promoting yoghurt, or mobile phones, or just increasing a profit line, I thought, well, I'd rather be working really hard and using the skills of powerful communications. That actually makes a difference. It's a cliche, but it's true. But the point is, the process is the same, you need a story, you need the reason, you need the timing, you need to make it newsworthy. And then you choose the channel that you put it out across. And then you'll have to measure it.
Robert Craven 06:46
The case that the burgers have, like 100 times more marketing budget, than showing people how to compost more carefully, or showing people how they can use a sustainable item. That's not the case.
Amanda Barry 07:06
Possibly, yeah.
Robert Craven 07:07
You're kind of fighting, you're fighting a tougher battle in that sense.
Amanda Barry 07:12
Yeah, because they're not as newsworthy, or, I mean, if you talk about marketing that takes into the whole band that's advertising, it's paid for stuff, where's public relations, you're selling a story and idea. And until recently, environmental stories have not been very sexy, they just have not been sexy. Whereas with the climate action, and that they suddenly started getting front page news, because they were being more newsworthy, creating problems and chaos and all sorts of things. So that's why they chose I guess, to go that route to get on the news. Agenda.
Robert Craven 07:53
Okay, second question. And kind of talk about your discovery of coaching, like it was like, an Aha, I have a very, very similar memory of going to Bristol, university for on a training course for small businesses. And going, wow, people do this for money. Are these people know the answer to all these questions. They stand up in front of people, and they talked about strategy and marketing and teams and find it. This is what a thing to do with your time? So I didn't really interested. I want to just look at your aha with coaching, what was it about? Because he talks about it almost as if it was a I was lost now on found experience. So what happened there?
Amanda Barry 08:48
I think my first aha moment was actually building on what you talk about a lot, which is working on the business, not in the business. So I was completely in the business, it was my business, I was so passionate about it. And I was working really, really, really hard. But what coaching enabled me to do is to start standing outside of that experience a bit but then start to incorporate all of my being not just my left brain working really hard or bit my right brain, it was actually my whole self and that sounds Yeah, so my aha moment was really when I realised that a I could actually have somebody who was listening to me not a friend, not a family, it was the space that I had, which is very precious. They were there to ask me powerful questions about what I thought about things, helping me discover my own wisdom if you like the you know, we all want to read the right books or watch the right that you know, to try and get it thinking it's out there somewhere and I realised that the answers to a lot these questions, I already had them, but they were buried. And I just thought Wow. That's special.
Robert Craven 10:03
Yeah, I mean, I think there is something about that approach, which is, you know, and we share it here, which is, you want to know how to grow business? Google grow my business. You want to know how to increase prices? Google, increase my prices. But so you probably know the answer. If you don't know, you know, how to access the answer to the question. So the realist view is kind of what's holding you back from doing this properly? Or why is it if you know what you need to do? I need to sack philosophy. Why poor old philosophy? Why is it you don't do it? Why is it you're not prepared to do it? Why is it that you don't do it? And I think that's the, I mean, for all of us running businesses, I think it's really quite a complicated thing going on our identity, our psychology, our definition of our success, our ability to move goalposts, our ability to always think we could do better, our ability to be amazed at staff aren't able to be mind reader's. It just kind of goes on and on. So the coaching, got you to realise, yeah, they're the books. But this is actually more about my Amanda's behaviour that actually needs looking at. But that's different from a psychologist or a therapist.
Amanda Barry 11:48
Yes. So a good way to a good metaphor, if you like that can describe coaching simply as opposed to therapy or management consultancy, okay? So, say you want to learn to ride a bike. So you go to the therapist, you go, I want to learn to ride a bike and the therapist will look, you look at the bike go. So when you're looking at the bike, what's coming up from you, what does that trigger about your past? How do you feel about that? What's bringing it? What does it? Yeah, what does it touch? So they'll talk to you about that. And you'll reflect on that. a management consultant, you'll say, I want to learn to ride a bike management consultant, great, I can help you the management, looks at the bike gets on the bike rides, the bike comes back, writes a report gives you the report. That's how you ride a bike. Okay, great. A coach will say, Okay, Coach will say to you, right, I want you to get on the bike. And I'm going to walk beside you as you learn to ride the bike. And I'm going to help I'm going to point out some blind spots may you're not aware of what's preventing you from riding the bike well, but you're going to be doing the riding of the bike, but I'm going to be there walking beside you every step of the way. And that's the difference between the 80/20 rule. Rule 80% with coaching, you're doing yourself 20% as the coach, the coach asked questions. They're not mentoring you, that's slightly different than asking you powerful questions. And they believe it or not, can unlock everything.
Robert Craven 13:20
Or you can unlock all sorts of the...
Amanda Barry 13:23
Yeah, because you're really wanting to unlock it.
Robert Craven 13:30
My friend Adam does it. He asks questions and you feel them hurtling towards using. Oh god, I can't. He's asked a question. And you go, Oh, before I answer that, would like a cup of coffee because they've asked the question that no one has asked or they've asked a question in such a way that they've actually opened something up. That needs opening up and reveal. I mean, it is really interesting because it's not about people who listen to that I'm a real fan of the book, radical candour and radical candour is about caring. And it's about challenging. But it's not about bullying. So,it's got to be done. You know, you can ask tough questions, I guess. But it's got to be with the right intention. Otherwise, it's just bullying. It's just getting your kicks from. From hurting someone. And that's not advisable. So. The thing here about, I guess, getting people to be able to do more than they thought they could there's a thing here about revealing to people what they can do, unlocking that's the word that I like. Do you think that we're all kind of locked away? And we need quite Freudian, isn't it? I mean, you kind of need an on unlocking a release.
Amanda Barry 15:08
I think well, yeah,we go through phases, sometimes we'll see something clearly, you know, at times when you've had a hunch about something if you follow it and it's proved to be great. Another time you have body swerved a disaster that's going to happen. And because you're listening, you're actually acting on your own sense of what the right thing is to do. But those senses get buried, sometimes through our anxiety and our stress and working so hard to do the right thing that we can lose touch with those very strong things that guide us if you like, and coaching. I mean, there's things like the internal voice that we all have the critic set that the saboteur and coat. Yeah, exactly, we've all got it. And what coaching will do will want unmask the saboteur or saboteurs that you have. It won't ever get rid of them, but it does reveal them to you. So you get to know what yours are. And you can start to turn down the volume on that, because you think, okay, that's not me, that's the saboteur speaking, they're all you don't want to do that. Remember what happened the last time we did that all, and a saboteur will come from a place of usually to just trying to keep you safe. So it's the easiest experience we've had in the past and that, but actually become very on how helpful and especially when you're running a business, and it's all on your shoulders. a saboteur can just push you down. So a coach will help you identify that slip start to get you to go, oh, okay, I know that voice. Thank you very much for sharing. I'm not listening.
Robert Craven 17:01
I know that one. I know that one for sure. And actually, in the two books I've read recently, one is about worrying and one's about that. And the general theme is acknowledge that it's there, you know, in other words, there's a really good reason your brain and your body is putting brakes on stuff because it doesn't want you to die, you know. And the dying is 10 times louder than smiling, if that makes sense in terms of how your body's behaving. So it's doing that and you need to say, thank you very much. I'm absolutely aware of what I've done. This is a bit like what's the definition of an entrepreneur? Someone who takes risks. It's not an entrepreneur, someone who takes calculated risks. So it's about going, Okay, what's the upside? What's the downside? Really what's the downside? Well, you know, it's only a house you know, it's only a car. I can live with that downside. I've bounced up I bounced down before I can do it again. And just moving it across like therapy for me almost actually moving it across and saying thank you very much for all the interview. Thank you very much for all the noise. Yeah, I know The business might go pop. I know they might take us to court. I've done all my due diligence. Yeah, there's a funny feeling in my tummy. But we're gonna proceed. And I think it's like, you know, for me from reading those books, it was like the AHA which is this, okay, but you just lift it up, and you just move it across.
Amanda Barry 18:41
And there's a really important difference between wisdom and saboteur wisdom is what obviously you do want to listen to and that's through hard experience. It's through having the failures, it's through having you know, it's life experience, which will help you and it's your innate wisdom, your wise self that is always there and again, with a coach you will be able to access that more readily. It will be there it will be present. Whereas a saboteur will be the negative will be exactly that all know you don't want to do that or Oh, you stupid, aren't you stupid? You know, and that's not helpful. Okay, but it's not helpful. So that's the other thing and the other thing that a coach will do will help you really connect with your values. Now values are thick they're not morals they're not right and wrong. It's not a pinion you know you're right I'm right you're wrong. Values is obviously unique to us all you have your own values, but they are the compass points that help us steer our life.
Robert Craven 19:45
I have here everyone's seen it. Very high tech values that is on the monitor all times and which are radical candour and give a shit and are very, very high, highly technical. And you know, through the early stages of COVID, where we were running calls for 100 - 200 people every night literally for three or four weeks, starting at four normally isn't finished until eight with people just going. What the hell's going on this is just falling apart. Just having this here reminded me about why we do this and what we're doing it for. So there was a saboteur saying you should be charging, why aren't you charging more? Do you know how much time you're worth it, you're really well crafted or you're just saying, yeah, here or that. But actually, there's something more important going on here. And we need to do it. Can I just rewind again to the third thing that you said which I can't let someone come on, and not share which you talked about burnout. So I think everyone, especially in the last few months, has felt Jesus is tough. And nearly all of us at some point in the last nine months have cried into our red wine or gin and tonic or orange juice or whatever it is, because it has been tough. But burnout is, I imagine, something that you can't see outside it because you're inside almost like bulimia or anorexia or something that by the time you were inside the burnout, you can only see the viewpoint of someone in burnout. So you're not able to see what's really going on if you're curious to understand what happened there.
Amanda Barry 21:52
Yeah, I think it was a combination of things. Really, I think it was treating my body like it was a machine, you know, just like, I mean, because I love the work. I mean, don't get me wrong, I loved it. But running a business is tough as well. It's never ending, partly because you're obsessive about it. You put everything you lose yourself, you lose your priorities, you know, the family goes over, you promised we did this. But I feel it. I've just got to do this one thing. And okay, sometimes you gotta do that. But if you're always, I always say if you're always in fifth gear, you've got nowhere to go. So like burnout for me, I was in fifth gear for many years, my personal life crumbled. My business was really successful. But actually, I was more than my business. And I think the thing is I just kept going kept going and going. And I think as you say, once you're in it, it's almost it's a bit too late, because you're already exhausted, deep down exhausted. And actually being able to step out of that side out, being able to step out one, as I said, Have time just for yourself. So people think, oh, it's indulgent, I can't really afford that. Well, you are your business's best asset. And actually, if you don't look after yourself like that, you are going to burn out because we're not machines. So for me, I'd you know, great looking back again, with hindsight. And actually, once I walked away from the business, I didn't even sell it. I mean, God, I should have sold it, but because sell out would have to sell it would have taken two years probably and I had somebody saying, Amanda, I'm up for this, you know, I don't know, I just got to I've had enough. Which was, you know, it was just one of those things. And then I spent actually, the next year or so doing some small projects, coaching MDS of small PR consultancies and saying, don't do what I did. This is what you need to do. Before that, but before it will happen to you too, and then many years later, as I said, I thought no, actually, I'd really love to train to do this properly. So to get certified as a coach, so.
Robert Craven 24:10
I think what happens is, I think that lots of us think we can get away with it. You know, it's I think loads of people have been there, you know, I'll do one more all nighter, or, in my instance, is always four o'clock in the morning and you get up and you say to your partner, I'm just going to make a cup of tea, but you know, you're going to open up the laptop and you're gonna look at the spreadsheet one more time, and try and make those numbers connect somewhere as if there's some secret and I remember really clearly why my accountant saying to me, why do you work on Saturday, if you haven't made enough money by by Friday at five, you're not going to make enough money by Saturday lunchtime. And it's like, God, that's brilliant. I had never thought of it that way. I just thought that if I work longer hours, I get further and now my recommendation to people is quite the reverse is to take Fridays off my whenever the busy whenever I need more business I take Fridays off because what do I do on Fridays, I ride the bike, I go for a swim, I go for a walk, I might even have to paint a wall or something. But all the time my brain is kind of thinking about it. I've never had a good idea in front of a laptop. So why do I think what this bloody animal that says work harder work until seven o'clock. It's just upside down. And the other thing just to add to that is I've just prepared a presentation on time management and managing your time is big piece of work. And I started off with all the slides, all the tools, all the tactics. So I thought I know what I'm going to do. This is clever, I'm going to 80/20th. So I put the whole deck out for the presentation and said 80/20, only 20% of these slides are any good. So literally in the presentation. Therefore, all we're left with now these 20 slides, and we're going to 80/20 those slides were all those slides, all we're left with now is four slides. And now we're going to add 80/20 of those slides again, all those four slides, we're left with one slide. And now on that one slide, we're going to 80/20 the words. And now we've got two bullet points. And those two bullet points, we're going to, we're going to 80/20 Those to find the one word and verbs energy. Word, that the one thing I think that is, as agency owners, as coaches, consultants as mentors, that we have to, as you said, protect. And also nurture is our energy because without that we I mean, you could argue it could be love or it could be direction, it could be focused, depending on who you are. But it's just that sense of if I'm knackered on a Monday morning, you know, I'm not not doing any favours to anyone. Right, let's move on. Otherwise, we run out of time. So you're working with good work, but what I call good work businesses, businesses with purpose, businesses with an intent, the sustainability that's the area that you're working in, is that right?
Amanda Barry 27:32
Yeah, that's definitely how I coach all sorts of businesses, but actually they're the ones that I particularly love to work with in the future. Perhaps you know, your interviewee Adam Hughes mentioned, B corpse and I totally think they are this brilliant movement.
Robert Craven 27:54
So for the people who don't know b corpses are because in the UK, for sure. Adams in New Zealand. So there are a bit more
Amanda Barry 28:02
70 countries around the world.
Robert Craven 28:05
So what is a B Corp? And what does it mean going down that route?
Amanda Barry 28:13
So a B Corp business can be any size, one to 1000s size, so you don't have to be a certain size. But they're businesses who have committed to certain quality standards of social and environmental performance, and of accountability and transparency in all that they do. So they put themselves off to be assessed by the B Lab, I think it's called. And I think it's quite tough. I would like to put myself forward as a coach for my business here to become a B Corp, you can apply and have a pending B Corp because it's a journey that you go through, you have to be trading for at least a year. Because it's not just on what your intentions are going to be in the future. It's like what are you actually doing? And it's just about it. I think it's one of the three things I say that we commit to being the change that we want in the world. We began the thing you know, so it's about walking the talk. And as businesses and organisations are seeing more and more now people want that people want businesses to be transparent they want them to be to tread gently on the earth, you know, we with Earth Overshoot this year was August the 22nd, which is the date by which the earth humans use up all the Earth's natural resources. And we're currently living at a rate of one and a half planets a year. And so we're using more resources than the earth can sustain and you just need to do the math thinking that's not gonna last, it's not going to work long term. So be a corpse. Our businesses are just saying, Yeah, we commit to this, this is what we want is systemic change. So it's clearly going to take time.
Robert Craven 30:16
So how is this different from it has been in the past, because, you know, I remember a friend of mine and marketing saying, excuse my language, all we're doing is getting people to buy shit they don't really want. And you could argue that you often look at people making stuff and you think how you get home at the end of the day, and you can go down the pub with your money in a pay packet. But is that?
Amanda Barry 30:44
No, it's got to be all sorts of business. Doesn't matter what you're making, or what you're doing, it needs to be aligned with those principles. So whilst Okay, an oil company might be a bit of a stretch to become a B Corp, but if it's an oil company that's committed to change, and maybe funding when renewed renewable sources then maybe so but, you know, so there are some companies that will struggle, but the point is, it doesn't matter what your business is, or what you do, you can still commit to these principles and actually, think about your transport, think about the materials you use, you know. So it's making that shift, which is tough, because obviously we've lived in a certain way up till now.
Robert Craven 31:43
Don't you think that's so I can absolutely get that for smaller independent businesses. I got an email yesterday from someone I work with saying just thought you should know I've travelled this many miles. But in return for that I planted this many trees, and this is my commitment, which is fantastic. And it does a number of things. One, it obviously is an action. Secondly, it's an awareness creating thing. And certainly he's showing awareness that his business is doing that and therefore so you can see that there's a benevolent cycle. And my concern as with your the various what I call greenwashing, you know, where big corporation, you know, pulls in the consultants gives them 4 million quid and comes away with a some quarter step sort of statement or being good people, but it doesn't make them good people just because they've got a statement saying they care about the planet, you know? So all I'm saying is, I can totally see this at a independent privately owned business stage, but I find it hard to, because the purpose, you know, when I went to business school, what is the purpose of a business, quote, unquote, to increase earnings per share year on year, that is the purpose was, I would argue, but is for many, the purpose of the business capitalism will sort things out.
Amanda Barry 33:20
So it's really important to not confuse a B Corp with or businesses that aim to be more sustainable, if you like, with a turning away from a profit because without a margin, you don't have a mission. That's actually something that they say. So you need to make a profit to be in business to be the change that you want.
Robert Craven 33:50
I don't need to screw people over that.
Amanda Barry 33:53
Yeah, that's the thing. It's, it's actually look, we don't have to be a bastard, excuse me. You can run a good business, and you can make money. And in fact, there's a study, I think one of the questions you wanted to ask was, Are there ROI? You know, is there a proof, you can link these sorts of businesses together. And if you look at sustainable brands, cop.com they've done a report and pulled up 22 examples of research that's been done which proves that ROI is not just possible. It's actually a result of this behaviour. You've got brands like Patagonia, IKEA, I mean, you know, IKEA has just launched that new. Bring back your old Billy bookcase and will buy it back from you. I mean, just incredible that things you just would not have thought was possible just a few years ago. So when big players like that start to move, and of course, every part of what they do isn't going to be really green. But that's not the point. There's, you know, it's a journey and we're on a journey. Where are you In transition, and I think that's important thing is, you don't have to, it doesn't have to be all done. But I think the desire and the behaviour generally has to change. And I think by having that intention and setting that clear view, then it is possible to change the way business is thought of and businesses run, you could be a B Corp, I mean, I know we're in normal times you travel and you fly a lot. But again, that you know, you mitigate that you don't think but you can, throughout the whole way that you run your business, there's no reason why you can't be one too.
Robert Craven 35:51
So going back, just going back to the main audience is digital agency owners, predominantly, young staff, average age of staff might be 24-25-26, predominantly inverted commas, young business owners, most are sub 40. Heavily influenced by people like Google and Facebook who have what was or two you and I is an alternative view of work working from home benefits of work, when to work. How the hierarchy of the organisation. So there's a real, and I've been to the, with Google, I've been to some of the best parties and the best celebrations ever. So there's that on the one hand, and then on the other hand, there's a tremendous requirement to deliver by the deadline. And so on the one hand, we have 23 year olds, allowed to run their own diary. And on the other hand, we have those same 23 year olds sitting in their beds on their bed with a laptop on top of their ironing board, because they're working from home and haven't actually spoken to anyone for three or four days. So I get what we want, and most agency owners I work with want to be doing better, and they understand the value of culture and values. But they don't necessarily have that in a tidy, neat, neat manner. I guess what I'm asking is either books or case studies? Is there a way of doing this or is it that everyone has their own journey?
Amanda Barry 37:53
I think everybody has their own journey. Absolutely. Because we're all unique and different circumstances. Again, I think, coming back to coaching, coaching is best when it's experienced. I mean, you know, it's, you can read about it, you can read what it does, but the benefit people are going to get is when they actually do it, I offer a free taster. So I shall just say that now. So you can sign up for that. And so you can experience coaching and what it does for you. And I think apt people are running agencies doesn't matter how small or what age the workforce is, they will be experiencing these problems, there'll be experiencing a lot of stress and anxiety, and to be able to take some time out for themselves to really get clear about what they're doing, what they value, what's important to them, what they really want from their life, what might be bringing them back or keeping them from doing what they want the saboteurs. And to be able to really unpack their own wisdom to start to be able to use that powerfully in their business that will help their teams as well. And it's interesting, I don't know any stats on it. But I know that coaching is overtaking traditional track training, whereas before you'd be sent off to a training course or whatever. And now people are being given a coach because they understand the value of that individualisation and people want that now.
Robert Craven 39:33
Well, I'd love to think that was true because I think that transmission training one to many very, very, very, very powerful. You get lots of ticks in the spreadsheet very, very quickly. You know, we've just spoken to 10,000 people online. But there's something really interesting about how engaged and how connected People are and obviously, online, you can add one to 10,001 to one is obviously, in effect 10,000 times more expensive. But people do this, like what's in it for me? Okay. I understand you join these dots, you know, a plus b equals c and so on and so forth. I think it's really interesting what you say about it. I need experience to understand that sort of Chinese proverb I see, I know, I hear, I forget, I do, I understand. I think that's roughly.
Amanda Barry 40:42
Do you mean the one that says, People won't remember what you say. They won't remember what you do, but they'll remember how you made them feel.
Robert Craven 40:43
That's Mayor Angelou. That's another one. But that's another one. That's another one.
Amanda Barry 40:55
Pretty good. They got a few of them.
Robert Craven 40:56
The Chinese did well on that. But I think, How do I do this? How do I walk away? How do I walk away and do this to my business? How do I make this happen? And I think it's quite hard for people to make the stretch from the training room, you know, here's your handout. Off you go. All great. Businesses are obsessed with strategy, marketing and things, okay. And how do I actually make that happen, and we just go back to your kind of bike analogy that you need to have someone alongside you, you're doing it yourself, because you're therefore you're learning it, and there's someone just nudging you or just pointing stuff out or looking after your back I really like that kind.
Amanda Barry 41:51
Of holding you accountable. So that's really important. That's a key thing about coaching, which you'll know as well because I know that you worked with coaches, you within your business, you have coaches, but the thing about a coach is that you can set goals, we all set goals the whole time, but you know, you're and then you'll sort of drop off things will happen and you'll let it slide but a coach will be there to say Well hang on No, this is what you said you wanted and if you want that then these are the steps and then you get to say what steps you can take but I think that people who are running businesses and it's really tough to get it all done. But actually having the space to sort of think that through to then have somebody there who is holding you accountable to what you say you want.
Robert Craven 42:40
So I'm just thinking about who your inverted commas ideal client is? It's a type of mindset and approach to business rather than necessarily a functional vertical, is that right?
Amanda Barry 43:07
I think it started off being very, you know, people who are running green types of businesses, but I think the more that I've looked at it and the more I thought about it, it's actually a mindset, it's people who actually want to be on that journey. As we were talking, as we've just discussed about be corpse doing the right thing
Robert Craven 43:29
Right, so the final question on a comedy of the times runs out because it's like for a meal. Remember those days? And maybe if we're both drinking with a few glasses, bottles of wine, even a brand new we come out of the restaurant, I wag my finger at you and so you know if you were me if you are someone running a business if you are someone running an agency and what are your kind of pearls, of wisdom, your golden nuggets that you might like to share because you've done loads, that poacher turned gamekeeper forever agency voc I'd be really curious about what are the things you often hear coming out of your mouth? I'm just gonna tell them that one because I don't think they're here. I've been really fascinated to know what one or two those might be.
Amanda Barry 44:23
Okay, I think one of them is to really value yourself as a whole human being and just not a head that's going around with all the thoughts in it your your whole person and when we feel something's wrong or something's not right, we will experience it in our body somewhere so in our gut will have a knot will have our shoulders will hurt. So your body is already telling you. And so it's just like start paying attention to that because your body is a fantastic teacher, the best teacher that you'll have. So that's the first thing is listen to that and if it feels wrong, that you can do something about that you can start to access that more. So treat yourself as a precious resource. As I said before, if you're running a business, it's exhausting. It's fantastic but it's relentless. Especially right now. It's very hard with the unknowing you know, we don't know what's coming. So just think you're not alone. There's a lot of stress and anxiety but see, you have the answers within you. You have the answers within you. And they might not always be simple or easy, but you know, you best value that.
Robert Craven 45:48
Love it. Amanda, thank you so much. I can't believe how quickly the time has zapped by people get ahold of Amanda, the details will be on at the end. And all is left for me to say. Amanda Berry, thank you so much for being such a great guest. Thank you very much indeed.
Amanda Barry 46:07
Thank you, Robert. Thanks for the opportunity.