Robert Craven interviews Adam Harris, Fresh Mindset
In this GYDA Talks, Robert interviews Adam Harris of Freshmindset. Adam specialises in providing leaders with the insights and tools they need to develop expertise in making the right introductions, and leverage this knowledge for strategic sales success. In other words, he’ll help you determine who and what you need to know, and who and what they need to know, to produce measurable and sustainable business results.
A dynamic and powerful speaker – really, though, he’s not just saying that – Adam brings audiences to their own “edge of glory,” pushing them to question their status quos and affect positive change within their organizations through introductions and the leveraging of networks and contacts.
Robert and Adam discuss:
Great questions to ask
B- Corp.s
Purpose - does it matter?
Don't be afraid to walk away
What to do: be reactive or proactive to clients... every 90 days
Businesses don't know where they are heading
Become a trusted advisor/partner
Where do you want to sit in the market?
BNI: 90% lifestyle of whom 50% content and 50% are deluded into thinking they are entrepreneurs
Decide what it is you want to be
3 questions for high growth potentials:
what is the product/service and why is it different
how will you fund your growth goals because it can't be funded organically
Who will be your people?
Is there a recipe book for success? Success is a function of the person that you are... the market is irrelevant
If you are young enough(!), create the conditions for success
Resolve to pivot or die
"Where, what, how?" can we do things differently?
So much money around now that you should consider M&A
Adam’s Pearls of Wisdom
surround yourself with smarter people - you are +/-10% of the people you surround yourself with
find people who will challenge you - not about the right answers to the questions but about hearing your questions questioned
Transcription:
Robert Craven 00:50
Hello, and welcome to the GYDA Talks. And today it's it really is my huge, wonderful pleasure to welcome everyone to the legend legend in his own lifetime. That is Adam Harris. Hello, Adam.
Adam Harris 01:07
Hey, that's a that's an intro and a half.
Robert Craven 01:09
Well, I think about you, Adam, is I do we do know each other rather rather well. So it's so I know what you've done for agencies. I know what you've done for businesses. I know what you've done done for me in terms of searing advice, which searing advice, which actually isn't actually advice actually was actually questions is one of the things about Adam, I'm talking about you as if you know, there is you ask this the Syrian questions, which kind of hit you right between the middle of the eyes? And then you go, Hmm, let me just deflect you, Adam, from answering that question from own life by somehow answering another question, because you've just asked a question to my call. Let's get back to the interview. So, Adam, for those who don't know, you, what do you what are you known for?
Adam Harris 01:57
I'm known for laser beam questions. To work with predominantly CEOs and boards of directors. I spend a lot of my time listening, observing. And I kind of work on the premise a lot of the times that the less I say the better. But actually, when I do speak, to make sure that it's completely an absolutely relevant and laser beam focused.
Robert Craven 02:25
Can you? Can you give us an example of that?
Adam Harris 02:29
Ah, so, sat around a board table. provocative, challenging questions, you know, a lot of conversation going on, should we do this? Should we do this? And actually stealing one of your questions. So we're actually all we had him, you know, start with the end in mind. What's the endgame here? And literally, you know, I think, for me, I'm percolating the information in my head, I'm listening, I'm absorbing what's being said, probably, more importantly, what's not being said. And then it's almost kind of like this. This vacuum of space just kind of thing implodes. And I say it and everything kind of just go silent. And people are then sitting there kind of going, Oh, that's actually a really good point. What are we actually trying to achieve here? So those things seem to happen to me on a on a daily basis from you know, from a one to one coaching perspective, a monthly when I'm sat physically or virtually within boardrooms is to just be challenging and asking that, that really difficult question that nobody, either a wants to answer, or b is even thought of. And that's, you know, that's where I spend my time.
Robert Craven 03:52
If I I'm going to big enough a bit, because I think there's actually there's actually more to it than that, because it's, it's, it's not just about identifying the elephant in the room or bringing the elephant onto the table. It's I think there's two other things going on, on I've, I've watched watched you numerous occasions when we've worked together, and I think one of them is about kind of persevering. In other words, not accepting, not accepting the, the initial answer. So you know, one of your quotes, which I use if we're going to do this swapping thing, is, you know, what's the yesterday behind the SU which anyone who, who pays me good money knows that at some point in every session, I will talk about what is the issue behind the issue because that's actually digging, digging in, into what's going on. And the other thing was you kind of alluded to, is actually going beyond what is what is normal consulting and whether that's asking very, very direct questions for us. It's about someone's personal life, or their personal relationships, if it's appropriate, but I think it's the actual, the actual creating the question, thinking about whether the question will create the response, and then letting it out as opposed to bullying for it. So it's it's kind of this kind of radical candour stuff, isn't it about, about, about caring, and as well as challenging at the same time?
Adam Harris 05:34
Yeah. And I think the phrase that I'm coining at the moment is being frank and fearless. It's something that I've been doing for as long as I can remember. And actually, part of my role, when I'm working with people is to get them to feel comfortable in being open, honest, transparent, to say what they really feel and what they really mean. And I think there's actually an opportunity here, I think, for digital agencies, you know, because actually, if you look at the landscape, and how people go about asking questions, it's quite, it's quite pragmatic. It's quite boring. It's quite consistent. And actually, if you, you know, as a digital agency, if you can go into into a customer or a client or a prospect, and build empathy, build rapport, and ask some really shit hot questions, to really provoke and get people to step back and really think, actually, what are we doing here? You know, what is this conversation all about? What is the engagement with that we're looking at, instead of going for the transactional sale, which I think so many people do, you know, within, not just generally within the consulting space, but specifically within digital agencies. I've seen it I've been, I've been on both sides, sat in the boardroom, you know, sat there as a potential customer, and I've literally sat there and just gone, if this is the best you can possibly do. What's the fucking point? You know, I might, I might as well pay somebody in the Philippines, you know, a 10th of the price to do it, because you're adding no value. You know, you know, this is where this is where I think it's vitally important. Understand what your vertical market is, but actually, it's the quality of the questions, the challenge that you have with the people that you work with, which for me is the most, that's the fundamental thing. And 95% of businesses Absolutely, just miss it.
Robert Craven 07:39
Yeah, so just don't with that. So the problem that digital agencies have is they're really good at the classic clatter clatter clatter you want to sell more coffee cups will get you links will get you leads will get you hits will get you ROI. But when it comes to selling their own service, because it's not a product, it's a service. It's like a professional service firm, like an accountant or lawyer architect where you're selling your reputation, you're selling the promise. They're really, really many are really, really poor. At understanding that they're creating a relationship, it's a relationship sell, it's not a transaction sale, and they think it's literally, let's look at the hopper, we've got 50 leads, we've got 25 sales, qualified 10 marketing qualified five proposals, what can we do to take it to the next level. And that's not how any of us want to be treated. And we can smell it when the when the the automated email pops up. So it is three days since we heard I just got one. Now it is three days since we heard from you, we were just wondering if you are still interested in our service, sort of. Today, the thing that differentiates us more than anything else is is far more around how we do stuff, you know, who we are and how we do stuff. Because every bloody website is, you know, we care about our staff, we we have a great purpose. We have wonderful.
Adam Harris 09:14
It's just it's just bullshit. And you know, so interestingly, since I've been in New Zealand, I've come across a couple of people who are quite focused on big corporations. So some people may well have heard of the concept of it was originally a triple bottom line, then there was quadruple bottom line people, people purpose profit planet. And now there's actually kind of a certification and a process to go through called B Corp. I think that there's there's only something like 7000 companies worldwide, but actually it's if you kind of imagine ISO from a from a standards perspective and kind of you know, you know, quality management be cool is definitely worthwhile looking at because it really takes the emphasis on the whole big picture. And especially if you're an organisation that want to want to build for longevity, you want to put significant value throughout, throughout the organisation to all the stakeholders. It's definitely something that's worthwhile looking at. Because, you know, and it's interesting, because I was having a conversation with them with somebody yesterday. And so, actually, what is the purpose of running a business? You know, and I think, I think a lot of the times, and I was reflecting on his thinking about the clients that I've worked with, we don't actually spend enough time, you know, when we talk about having the purpose, but what's actually the benefit for the for the stakeholders, you know, what, what's the value add? Yes. So, you know, for some people, it's about making the money, but who are the people that we want to impact? And then the lives and the families and the relationships and the wider stakeholders? You know, and again, even from a digital agency perspective, I think you when you're able to have that relationship and that rapport, and you're bought in because you believe in the customer's product or service. Everything just seems to become a lot easier. You know, it doesn't become it's not work, actually. It's just, it's just about, you know, and I know that you're very similar to me, Robert, most of the clients that I work with, I quite liked hanging out with them. It's a joy. They bring me in, because there's a specific skill that I've got. But actually, it's not work. It's its relationship. And I think there's a lot that people can learn about that.
Robert Craven 11:40
That's down. So I'm about three or four questions for you, Adam. So the first one is, how small in headcount can you be and still be a B Corp and for it to be a one person?
Adam Harris 11:55
Okay. Yeah, so there's a there's a consultant friend of mine, who specialises in B Corp. He's put himself and his organisation all the way through. So you could be a one man band here in New Zealand, because that's just the conversations I've been having Patagonia, Mueller yoghurts, so the size of the organisation is almost irrelevant, actually, it's about the certain criteria to hit. And it's not easily you know, there's a maximum of 200 points that you can get, you need to get 82. Put is definitely worthwhile looking at.
Robert Craven 12:41
Okay, so that's the first the first bit the second bit is you're talking about two things. So I, anyone who's listened to me ever knows how I get irritated about purpose and the power of y and
Adam Harris 13:01
Okay, so why do you do what you do?
Robert Craven 13:05
I'm interviewing you. Okay.I do, because I love helping agencies and I love seeing them flourish. Okay, so that's why I do what I do. But I, I really enjoy making an impact and changing how people live their lives and the quality of their lives. Okay. My point is that we've done all this. Why what how purpose, most of that as I look around me, I've got a pair of glasses, a bio, a book, a mobile phone, and a felt tip marker pen. Okay. Not one of those things did I buy thinking Oh, I wonder what their why was I wonder what Holdren stout and why is what their purpose is, you know, you just go and buy stuff. Now I'm not denying that if it comes to buying from us from from a small local accountancy firm or an architect practice or a designer or small independent that I'm way more interested in in what they're doing and why they're doing and how they're doing and also if I can buy shoes, I'll buy toms and I love the Patagonia stuff and so on and so forth. But the majority of the time I don't buy stuff for for their why, and I'm not convinced that people buy my stuff for my why they buy my stuff because I do do a good job. In those days when you are I went on stages, if you remember that way back when they wanted a speaker who could talk about a specific subject in live in the audience, the audience go away feeling better and more excited and more committed to make stuff happen. Whether I did that for the money or whether I did that for because it's my why I don't I'm not sure people cared that much.
Adam Harris 15:06
Well, but so actually it, whether whether other people care or not is actually irrelevant is whether you care, and whether it's in tune with your wife. So you said two minutes ago that it was, you know, you, you take great joy out of helping other people. So, you know, and we've had the pleasure of being on stage together, and I've seen you many times, if you didn't have that passion, and you didn't have that purpose, and you didn't have that energy, you wouldn't be half the speaker that you are, because you wouldn't get up there, you wouldn't get up there with the same level of energy. And so actually, it's not really about anybody else about the peel apart from to initially start with, and I agree with you, there are some things that are that are transactional, but then there are other things where actually you are. So I've just bought, I bought a new car here. I've bought my second Nissan LEAF, it's an electric vehicle, there was absolutely a reason and a purpose and a why to going through an electric vehicle. I could have had could have picked any car, but there was
Robert Craven 16:18
No that's not the purpose of the organisation. This man's purpose is to increase cavities.
Adam Harris 16:23
So it's here on here is my purpose.
Robert Craven 16:27
And I guess I guess what I'm what I this just summarises my irritation with the purpose conversation, which is the word purpose. So, you know, he wrote a book, you know, he did a TED talk. And the word purpose is sloshed around all over the place. So business purpose, there's team purpose, there's individual purpose, there's life purpose, and, and what was originally an idea, which is, it really helps to understand why you're trying to do what you're trying to do. Because you understand why you're trying to do it kind of gives you a month, which is what you're talking about. The whole marketing industry fell in love with, with the idea of communicating a why, although apples, the only people who I really feel and maybe Patagonia connected really well, really well, though, why, but I've got agencies, and you've heard me pull my hair out about them. You'd had the consultants in her saying, Oh, so you're an eight person agency, you need to understand what your why is. And just like you, you ask the basic questions, why do you do what you do, we love doing great work with great people, we love the family atmosphere. We love you and making a difference to our clients and helping our clients navigate the marketing environment that they're in. And, and that the consultants wanted the 80 page, you know, reflective thought structure and connect it with the planet and sustainability. It's not it's a couple of guys running a business and, and feeding their children and nurturing their own future and then the future of their, their community of staff and their stakeholders. But it's.
Adam Harris 18:12
Two is two responses. So first and foremost, again, I'm going to call you start with the end in mind. Okay, so I was in a board meeting yesterday. And the decisions were made that we that we want to exit in seven years time. Okay, so start with the end in mind, who's going to buy? Because if we know who's going to buy, we can then work backwards and we can do it. So is that the purpose? Is that the goal? Is it the destination? Is it the roadmap in fundamentally, it actually doesn't make any difference? It's a it's a framework of working, that's going to mean that there's people that have got focus and intention on what they're trying to achieve. With regards to potential consultants coming in, and you and I both fit in this in that camp, agencies fit in that camp. For me, what's important, actually is about anybody that engages for a paid service, it's the responsibility of assisting the business or the organisation or the customer or the client, whatever word you want to use in navigating from where they are, to where they want to get to, and actually dependent on what the client or the customer needs, is the facilitation of that conversation. It's the facilities facilitation of the output that is going to help an assistant get there. I think my observation is, is that too many people have got a standardised process, which isn't necessarily right for the for the customer. And actually, the second thing is, is that they don't hold their hands up and say we're not the experts in this space. Either because we're not in this vertical or we haven't got experience in your size of organisation. And actually from a from a values perspective The best thing to do is to turn around go, let me introduce you to somebody else. And actually, that's why most industries get a bad name is because people don't walk away when they should do.
Robert Craven 20:13
Are you saying that agencies should kind of celebrate the number of times they say no, so to speak?
Adam Harris 20:26
I think it's, I think it would be a quite a key KPI to potentially be measuring. Because actually, I mean, you know, I've ran, I've ran a number of businesses myself, I've been on plenty of boards. For every job that you take, and the piece or piece of work that isn't within your core remit. You're actually losing money. Because you're, you're you're not sure, don't get me wrong, if it's a new area, or a skill that you're looking to expand. And you're going to cross and cross sell upsell into other customers. Great. You look at it as an individual. You know, again, in the board meeting last week, we're always talking about, we need to have an opportunity review process, no more than one page, we have a set number of questions, an opportunity for a product or service comes in, or a customer comes in. Let's analyse and standardise the response. And we'll either go no, not now, or Yes. And actually, what you then do is that you then review probably quarterly, all of those different opportunities. So you're getting into a flow and a system of kind of just, you know, and I think again, this is, I think it's I think it's more of notice with with UK businesses than anything else is that most businesses are just too reactionary. Somebody says, Oh, could you do this for us? Oh, yeah, customer says we want this from you. You go actually, you've not analysed to see, have you got the existing skill set? What's the margin going to be? Where? Is it going to be worthwhile? Are you actually going to be able to deliver against this? Or actually, is it going to put a you're going to potentially lose money? And be potentially you're going to have reputations on the line as well.
Robert Craven 22:07
So you're saying post mid COVID, depending on where on earth where else we really are in this world? Who knows? you're advocating turning Workaway you're advocating not learning new skills you're advocating, sticking to the knitting?
Adam Harris 22:30
I'm suggesting Yes, and no, I'm saying, you don't just say yes to everything. You stop. You go, you have a process internally. And you you you look at it, you look at each opportunity and you say, Is this going to be fit for us moving forward? Are we going to be able to sell this to multiple different clients? Are we going to be able to be able to move forward with this? And it might be never, it might be? Not now or it might be actually Genoa is an opportunity? Our biggest client wants us to do X? Okay, how many other people can we roll that app to? What's the additional skill set that we're going to need? What's the additional training that potentially we're going to have to put people through? So I'm saying yes or no. Um, so what I am saying is you need to have your own system within your own business.
Robert Craven 23:24
But there is, I mean, there is this problem of, of, you know, the founder and shiny, shiny fluffy stuff, you know, rabbits, and because the immune system is this thing that you know, what we do, same customers, same market, same product, same service, it kind of gets dull, and yet, other stuff seems really sexy, and really interesting. And we go, we might want to go away. And so I mean, one thing, one example, which is contrary to that. So you see, I see digital agencies, trying out all kinds of stuff. Oh, yeah, we'll do tic tac toe to social media will do this and they go kind of down a rabbit hole. Because they don't know what's going to be the next big they don't know what's gonna be the next big thing. Google was the biggest gig in town. It's stuff is still moving. Google is still big, but you know, pressure from below pressure from above pressure from the outside? Is there some new new piece in some agencies are going no, we're going to become the we're going to become Google's best friend and others are saying we've got to spread our wings. That one there's one area which I find fascinating, which is digital agencies like PPC and SEO agencies, and video, all the evidence all the evidence I've ever seen says video and video advertising is phenomenal for the client is phenomenal in terms of ROI and engagement and sales. But hardly any pure digital agencies will go down there because it's a bit like it's a bit like Car saying, Oh, you're a car driver, why don't you drive a motorbike? And the answer is, because I'm a car driver, I'm not a motorbike driver, that's why I'm not going there. And, and so there's, there are loads of instances in the industry of people being kind of really gung ho and selling something they've never sold before, partly because it's a new industry, I guess. But there are also examples where there seem to be really good opportunities like digital, like, like video advertising, where people shy away from it, because it's because it's too different. So so I kind of struggled with the industry about why everything, everything that the clients are saying to digital agencies is that they want a broader offer, you're a PPC agency, can you do SEO for us you do SEO? Could you do? Could you update our website, could you do some landing page, you do a landing page, we're thinking about improving our brand, you know, so we're moving away from pure transactional stuff into, you know, from, from what I call the pointy headed staff to the colouring in department. And, and so there's that stress going on. And then there's that stress to just make sales. And then there's the stress of, of, of clients just wanting everything cheaper. So, so, so I'm with you, you know, stick to your guns, be good at what you do? Think carefully. If and when put your prices up, don't be ashamed of other higher price. But at the same time, there's tremendous pressure to, to, to commoditize. And, and I guess what's, what's your what would you be telling a digital agency client of yours to do?
Adam Harris 26:57
Okay, so there's a lot of things there. Okay, so there's, there's a couple of things that came to mind as you're talking there. And I think you have to work out? Are we going to be reactive to the needs requirements on what our customers want? Or are we going to drive and be proactive in driving our own agenda, okay. And to be fair, either, is perfectly fine. So if you want to go down the reactive route, the best way that you need to be doing that, in my opinion, is that you need to be consistently talking to your customers, probably every 90 days. Now, you can either be doing that in customer surveys, customer feedback, at the time at the point of sale, on delivery, roundtable discussions, to be honest, I don't really care. But you need to be having a consistent conversation and getting the feedback off of what are the one or two things that we're not currently providing for you that you'd like to buy from us. So you don't have to It's not rocket science, you just have to be asking the right questions. So that's one route deals.
Robert Craven 28:00
Every 90 days, you're saying every 90 days, okay?
Adam Harris 28:04
Because actually, even just from a customer retention perspective, you're touching base, you're having conversations, you're getting the feedback. And actually, what they're going to be telling you is going to be indicative as potentially, of areas that your customers and your client base, may well actually be wanting in the future. They just don't know about it.
Robert Craven 28:25
And that's listening as opposed to prompting, I think, Well, it's because because, again, you're back down to that problem, aren't you that unless you have to go back to the to the video marketing and Visio ads. Because you're letting once once the genies out of the lamp, if you say to a client, I suppose you're interested in video advertising? Oh, that's a good idea. Can you do that for us? And then you'll know.
Adam Harris 28:59
This is so this is why I said. So you've got the listening aspect. The other way to potentially go is to go right, we're absolutely going to be at the forefront. I'm going to be engaged with Robert and guider and I'm gonna go to every single conference, I'm going to speak to all of my peers, I'm going to have my finger on the pulse I'm going to know or we're going to know exactly what's going to be the next big thing before anybody else does. So you've got you've got either potential strategy, okay, either is perfectly fine. Now, the thing is, you don't necessarily have to be the company that delivers everything. What you can be as you can be the go to people. So taking your example of video is that you, you can either subcontract, you can partner, you can refer you can introduce whatever model or method is going to work for you. Now, if it's the case that you decide that you want to actually do it for yourself, you can then map out and go right, we've spoken to all of our customers and X X number of them have said, Actually, they're really keen and interested. Okay, so how many do we need to sell to get the right videographer in to be able to do to be able to do it all? So, you know. And it's funny, I've been drawn more towards him working with you over the years and spending a lot of time with you and others. I'm so much now more about the strategic thinking about the planning about the execution about starting with the end in mind. Because actually, it's incredibly important, you really, really need to know. And I think the biggest thing for me with that I find with most businesses is that they don't know where they're headed. And actually, that's the biggest problem is, is that they're, they're peering through, they're hoping, willing, expecting that things are just going to change and adapt for them without having the right level of thinking. Okay, so
Robert Craven 30:52
I'm gonna go back to this. So you're talking to a digital agency owner, first thing you're going to tell them is reactively, or proactively talk to your customers have that 90 day conversation, finding out what their hertz needs, wants, it just scratches are finding out what they're interested in finding out what they think about us, and so on and so forth. So that's your first thing that will go well.
Adam Harris 31:20
So if you're gonna go down the reaction regret, and you're gonna deliver what your customers need, you should be doing that. If you're going to be doing the proactive, the conversation is slightly different. What you're doing is you're ringing them and saying, Can I make you aware of the next things that you should be doing? So slightly? Yes, 90 days, but the conversation is slightly different.
Robert Craven 31:40
But that's especially true now where all clients are saying, I know we had a budget with you, but if it's alright, with you, can we suspend the budget for another three months. And to come back to the client and say, Mr. or Mrs. Client, I think you're missing a trick. So so the role becomes us, helping our helping to guide our clients helping our guide, navigate helping them to navigate through these difficult times.
Adam Harris 32:12
Sorry, you moved from being a supplier to being a trusted advisor. For me, is, you know, again, you have to decide as an agency, where do you want to sit within the market? You know, do you want to just be a transactional? You know, commodity based company? Or do you really want to, and let's be honest, you know, in my experience of, of m&a, those companies that are on the the end of trusted advisor are the ones that are going to be worth a hell of a lot more than the ones that are on a transactional end. Now. So, you know, again, this is many years ago, when I first started out in my business career, I was heavily involved in, in BNI, you and I've had conversations about this before, right? What I realised very, very quickly,
Robert Craven 33:10
You don't know what BNI is, it's, it's, I think, once a week, you give people leads, it's phenomenal for some people and other people don't like it.
Adam Harris 33:23
So the thing that I realised very quickly was 95% of the people in the room had lifestyle businesses. Okay, 50% of those knew they had a lifestyle business. Absolutely, were comfortable with that fact. 50% had a lifestyle business, but they had a perception that they were going to be the next big thing. And that's delusion. So decide what it is that you want to be. Because when you know what it is that you want to be and what it is that you want to do, actually, you'll be able to get the success that you want. So, you know.
Robert Craven 34:03
All you can't just, you can't just this is like bloody books that go on. We were one person and three months later, we were 500. You've kind of missed out a fundamental thing there, Adam, you've gone from decide what do you want to be? Yeah, I get that because it kind of start with the end in mind. Therefore, you don't want to be that you don't want to be that disabling to be and then he's, and then I think I'll have to rewind to hear it again. You said decide where you want to be. Because then you can be that thing. And I think that that that there. You could be entirely delusional. You couldn't read often. How often do you hear people say you meet people at your network in your home? What do you do? Oh, I've done enough data. Oh, that's fantastic. What are you trying to do? Well, within three years, I want to sell it for 5 million pounds. Oh, that's interesting. How can I do that?
Adam Harris 34:03
Okay, so so this this then becomes the key for me. Okay. So, as an investor, as potentially somebody that may well fund, I'm looking at three questions here or three things, I want to find out, what's your product and service, product or service, and you need to help me understand how and why yours is different to the competition. Why you first to market in product or service. So you've really got to be something that's, that's different, that's revolutionary. And that may well be in customer service, it might, whatever it is. Okay, so that's the first thing. The second thing is, so tell me how you're going to fund growth. Because if you think that you're going to do it organically, you are delusional, okay? So help me understand where you're gonna get the finance from, to grow from where you are to where you want to get to, okay. And even if they don't know where they like, that's going to come from there. When I asked that question, their response shows me that they're open and willing to explore the finance conversation. And the third thing is, so tell me about the people that you've got within the organisation, or the people that you're going to recruit. I know, you're going to be recruiting people that are smarter than you, that can be doing the things that you don't do. So I can pretty much within a 15 minute conversation, I can tell you whether, you know, a business owner or business owners are going to make the success that they want and that they've got their achievement, or whether they're delusional. It's actually quite simple.
Robert Craven 36:35
Okay, I'll go along with I mean, I think that's I think that's, that's pretty, pretty damn good. So
Adam Harris 36:41
I'm sorry, you know, I'm happy to say to anybody that's, that's watching this video, I'm more than happy to have a 15-20 minute conversation with them get on a zoom call. And I'll give them my challenging questions. And then I'll give them if they want my opinion, on the one or two things that they should potentially be doing differently. I'm more than happy to share with your community.
Robert Craven 37:04
That's, that's incredibly kind. That's incredibly current details will be at the end, you may wish you hadn't said that. They have to work work in New Zealand have to work in New Zealand hours. So are you. So you bought and sold companies? Do you think there's a blueprint for success? Do you think there are secrets of success? Do you think there's a Do you think there's a pattern that most successful entrepreneur entrepreneurial enterprises go through? Um, is there a recipe?
Adam Harris 37:51
I don't think I I think there's conditions for success that you can create, that can give you a better chance. Okay. However, there's a caveat, which is, it's going to be slightly different dependent on the person that you are. Okay.
Robert Craven 38:08
Dependent on the customer or not the markers?
Adam Harris 38:12
Oh, yeah. To be honest, the market is irrelevant. Right? The market isn't relevant. If you aren't, if you aren't good enough. If you're young enough, sorry, what's the phrase? You're good enough? If you're good enough, you're old enough
Robert Craven 38:31
To edit that out.
Adam Harris 38:34
But here's the thing, right? And maybe this has been controversial. If you have the tenacity, if you have the energy. If you build the right culture, if you surround yourself with the right people, if you get the right finance, if you find a way of being challenged, you will be successful.
Robert Craven 38:53
No. I'll tell you why. Because the graveyards of business are full of people. Okay. You say exactly this, when you read these books, which are historic histories written by the winners, you know, oh, Richard Branson, what did you Oh, Anita Roddick, what did you do? Oh, what did you do this? Oh, we have great people. Great strategy, right place in the market, right time, right funding and the passion to make it happen. And when you go to the graveyards of all those people who've gone bust. And you say, tell us what you were doing this? Oh, we had great people, great strategy. Great time to market great product. But for some reason, and it may just be luck that they were a week too early a week late or someone already had the copyright or they recruited an FTE who was not as good as they thought they were for some reason. You know that there's like a tipping point. And some go, you know, to the left and some go to the right. And I think One of the one of the big disgraces of business school and business education, is that the stories of the winners are pretty much identical to the stories of the losers.
Adam Harris 40:18
You basically just agreed with what I said, which is, you have to create the conditions for success. Now, if you create the conditions for success, then that's the best possible chance you're going to give yourself. Yes, there has to be some luck that comes into it. But if you don't create the conditions for success, and if you don't do in my opinion, what I said, you know, get the challenge, get create the peer group, if you don't do any of that, then you're destined to fail. So do you want to be in the camp that is going to have the greatest opportunity of success, or not
Robert Craven 40:55
For this is about about taking control of your destiny, it's about as Covey would say, it's about being being proactive and, and not having stuff done to you, but taking ownership of it. And, and, and accepting responsibility for failure and for success. And it's about therefore, it's about how you react to stuff rather than what stuff does to you.
Adam Harris 41:24
And, you know, to call it a cheesy line, it's all about resilience, you know, and, you know, look at the current situation and the stuff that's going on at the moment. People, you can either implode and blame everything on, you know, the current situation, or you can go, what's the opportunity that we can do here? You know, how can we pay for it during this period of time? You know, but, you know, I know plenty of organisations and there's plenty of board meetings that I was involved in, you know, two or three days of mild absolute panic. But actually it was it was those that allowed the dust to settle fairly quickly. And go actually, the shit hit the fan. Let's work through that crisis management. Boom. Now let's move on. Let's crack on where what, how can we do differently? To be absolutely competitive? And you know what? Now? I mean, all the organisations I've been involved in currently over the last six months, it's where's the opportunity for acquisition? Absolutely, because now is the prime period, because some, some businesses are gonna go pop, some business owners, they're just not got the fight left in them. Great. Let's take the opportunity. Let's take their client base, let's give them our wraparound value, add whatever it is the secret sauce that we offer. And absolutely, let's push forward. You know, I'm speaking to you know, VC firms, funders all the time. And they there's so much money around now. You know, people going oh, yeah, it's not the right time. Bollocks. Now is the perfect time to go down the acquisition route. And if you ever had any aspirations of growing your business, if you're not looking now or have even been thinking about looking at then in my opinion, you're in the delusion of the camp and you're never going to be achieving what you perceive that you want to achieve.
Robert Craven 43:18
There Adam Mr. Delusional of Peckham, rock we pretty much run out of time, Adam, we're gonna have to do a part two, obviously, as expected, which is great. I'd like to ask two questions. One is very quickly just so people understand what do you what are you actually doing now? And and what's next on the on the Adam Harris? Diary, that's the first question. A second question just so you can think about it is your recommendations or your your pearls of wisdom for a digital agency owner, if it's the old thing, you had a lovely meal, good conversation. Those who drink had been drinking, you come out, you put your arm around them and say if I was you, the one thing I do is so so firstly, what's next for you? And what are you doing? And then secondly, what are your pearls of wisdom?
Adam Harris 44:17
Okay, so I moved to New Zealand late late last year. So I now work with CEOs, boards of directors. I'm working on new brand called Frank and fearless at our focus, flow and fun in the boardroom. You probably tell my style from some of the conversation. I'm just interested in having conversations with people that potentially they're stuck and they want to get to another point. And I work on the premise if I'm not the right person to assist. I'll know the person that is so you know, for me that's about qualifying. You know, I take great enjoyment about qualifying people out because I have a particular style and Have a particular way of working, and it doesn't suit some people. And absolutely, that is great. So for me, happy to speak to anybody and kind of signpost with regards to pearls of wisdom, couple that instantly come to mind, the first thing is surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. Okay, and what I mean by that, and you'll be able to tell me who said this, you are plus or minus 10% of the five people you spend the most amount of time with. And that will be financially it will be intellectually, it will be I'm not sure about the sex life, I'm not sure about that one. But generally speaking, you know, you'll, you'll rub off of each other. And you'll pick up their pearls of wisdom. So you and I first met in a mastermind group, or five years ago, least, yeah, the other one, and it kind of is tied into this is you need to find people around you that are going to challenge you. So whether that be a coach, whether it be a mentor, whether it be a peer group. And it's really important, it's not about having your it's not about having your answers questioned. It's about having your questions questioned. Okay, it's really easy.
Robert Craven 46:38
So that, again, I'm gonna have to write
Adam Harris 46:40
About having you it's not about having your questions answered. It's about having your questions questioned. Because actually, when you ask a question, you pretty much know what the answer is anyway. But to actually get to a deeper level, and to get to the challenge, you need to find somebody that's prepared to go. So this is what we're going to do. And it's like, okay, really, but why, you know, and the simple five why's is a nice, common structure. But actually, it's about really getting somebody who you're quite happy and prepared, that is going to make you feel uncomfortable, is going to challenge you, you're gonna walk away and your head is going to be thought, because they've asked one or two questions, that has literally just blown your mind. Now, you and I have been doing it to each other over the years. And you know, and that's one of the you know, and that's great, because there's a mutual mutual relationship that exists. So I will be saying to any digital agency owner, who's the one or two people in your life, that really makes you feel uncomfortably comfortable, and challenges you to a state where you're walking away, and you're absolutely fixated on doing something and you go and actually, I'm not sure now, because that is a brilliant place to be.
Robert Craven 48:08
I'm just writing it down. That's brilliant, uncomfortably comfortable, uncomfortably numb as Pink Floyd would say, Adam, it has been awesome talking to you. I knew I'd love this conversation. And I knew that the agenda we had was totally irrelevant. Far more interesting conversation. We will do a part two, we'll do part two, because Adam and I wrote a book called checking strategy journal and checking strategy questions a booklet, we have to discuss that. And I also want to delve harder into these these coming questions and about the inner game that we play. But on that note, I'm going to go ahead and say, Adam, even a star, it's been a real pleasure talking to you. Thank you so very much indeed. Thank you.